Search Featured: Danny Sullivan

Every once in a while you hit a moment where you feel like time stands still. That is how I’ve felt in 2005 when I met Danny Sullivan after years in the SEO business.

Danny is the one person there needs to be no introduction for.

Search Feature has had an excellent start and who could I think of to have the next interview with?

Danny Sullivan was the one that came to my mind.

Without any further ado, here is my kickass interview with Mr. Sullivan himself:

Dammann: Hi Danny, first of all I appreciate you giving me this interview.

Back in the days when you´ve gotten started, nobody knew what SEO meant. How did you ever get into the business and what were you telling people that you were doing for a living?

Danny Sullivan: I left newspapers to do web development in 1995. Part of that was ensuring that web sites were listed properly in search engines. When we had one client really upset he wasn’t ranking for some term, I starting looking into exactly what factors were important. There weren’t a lot of answers out there. I published what I found in early 1996, and I remember proposing to our sales manager that we should be selling “search engine tuneups” as a separate service. She thought I was nuts. The web development company folded soon after, and I was out on my own as a consultant. I kept up the writing about search engines, plus I started offering the tuneup service on my own. Haven’t looked back since! I generally told people I wrote about search engines, pretty much the same way I still have to do today. Thought I saw Google a lot more. If they understood search engines, then I might explain the SEO side of things. I generally didn’t get into that much because I really didn’t want my taxi driver trying to get me ranking them better on a search engine

Mike Dammann: For years you have been the organizer of the SES Conventions in San Jose. Share some of your best memories and tell us what you yourself have learned during that time.

Danny Sullivan: Well, I started the SES conference series back in 1999, when the current president of my company, Third Door Media, proposed doing a search marketing conference. This was when we both then worked for Jupitermedia. I’ve got many great memories with range for the first ever conference, when no one knew what each other looked like. We all really only knew each other from online mailing lists, so it was a lot of fun matching perception to reality. The first Google Dance, when I was amazed to see blackhats as well as employees of competing search engines running around the Google Campus. The third Google Dance when some attendees put a couch on the bus. When Yahoo rented out Great America so search marketers could have a “night off.” Interviewing lots of search luminaries on stage, such as Sergey Brin, Eric Schmidt, Marissa Mayer, Jim Lanzone, Steve Berkowitz, Satya Nadella and Jerry Yang. I’ve got to gear up questions for Kevin Johnson now for our SMX Advanced show in Seattle this coming June! SMX — Search Marketing Expo — is of course my new conference series. I left behind my association with SES last year and now focus only on my own SMX shows.

Dammann: You are moving back to California now, what did you miss the most about Cali and do you surf?

Danny Sullivan: Well, I could say the weather and the lifestyle but I miss mainly that it’s “home” to me. I love the ocean, the area and being where I grew up. Sadly, I don’t surf. I’ve been out twice and really enjoyed it, but I’m a poor swimmer and don’t have a lot of upper body strength. But I might start working on that. I do enjoy taking out a boogie board, though I suck pretty much at that. One reason I love snowboarding so much is that it feels a lot like surfing but I don’t have to do all the swimming.

Mike Dammann: OK now to the boring stuff, actually this one is search related yet exciting to me. I personally believe that Searchme.com is going to become a major keyplayer in search. There are speculations amongst internet marketers that Google might want to buy them out. Do you see that happening and do you believe that people who start using it will become hooked on that way to find new sites?

Danny Sullivan: I’ve yet to play with SearchMe, but I highly doubt they’ll be a major player. What I’ve seen of it doesn’t seem that compelling. The search interfaces we have now are that way for a reason. Coming in with something radically new isn’t necessarily a game changer. I did a long post about this about two years ago: http://daggle.com/060919-204304.html

Mike Dammann: I have met almost everyone in the SEO business. Do you know what you stand for in my book? While there are so many little cliques and mini-wars, you always seem neutral and evaluate issues objectively. How do you stay this way and not let yourself get sucked into all of the little games being played.

Danny Sullivan: I’m a Libra, we’re all about balance But seriously, while I’m not a big astrology buff, I’ve generally been someone who tries to understand all sides and reach a consensus. Or if I can’t reach a consensus, I at least want people I disagree with to feel I’ve heard and respect their views. I guess I also decided early on, since I was running one of the few search sites out there, that I didn’t want to feel I had to be excluding content or people because they might be “competition.” I felt my strength was to be as inclusive as possible. I might be missing some good link bait as a result, but it’s just what fits for me.

Mike Dammann: Unsure of what I should ask, I went ahead and read some of your reasons for leaving SEW, and came across this
“But if I’m going to do something, I’m going to put my all into it, my entire being and soul.”
Any regrets or other comments which you would like to add?

Danny Sullivan: I regret that SEW and I couldn’t find a way for me to continue on together. In the end, I didn’t feel any incentive to help continue building a long-term brand I wasn’t going to benefit from. I know the break has caused some to feel they should be taking “sides” between publications and the respective conferences series that each publication backs. To the extent I can, I try to reassure people they don’t need to do that. Search marketing is still a small community, and I’d rather not have sides at all. But aside from that, nope, not regrets. In fact, I’ve loved the fresh start and being completely in control of my own destiny. It’s a lot more responsibility, but then again, if I want us to serve actual food on plates at our conferences, I can now make that happen

Mike Dammann: I´ve known you for about 3 years now and as a friend I HAVE TO ask you what you think about Search Feature so far and if there is any advice you can give us for a long term success, as you of course have created.

Danny Sullivan: Well, I won’t win any points here, because I’m behind on my reading. I’ve been swamped coming off of SMX West in February. But I was impressed with the SearchMe feature. There was a lot of good, unique material in that interview. I thought you pulled of a real coup with it. I think I was the second person to Sphinn it!

Mike Dammann: Everybody feels like they know you, tell us something we don´t know yet.

Danny Sullivan: Well, I did this 5 things you don’t know about me here: http://daggle.com/061218-132558.html. I’d probably add that I’m kind of shy. Might sound weird since I’m often on stage at a conference or something. But if I’m at a conference that has nothing to do with search, I tend to find it hard to get out and network. That’s one reason I’ve been really working to make sure people can network more easily at our SMX shows. I know what it’s like to be standing in that room and not being certain how to get started talking to people.

Mike Dammann: Third Door Media includes 4 brands, Search Engine Land, Search Marketing Expo, Search Marketing Now and Sphinn.
Have you already done everything that you wanted or do you have some new irons in the fire? Anything that you can share?

Danny Sullivan: I’ve got a million plans! Seriously, right now I want to see us spend time improving what we’ve already launched.

Mike Dammann: Isn´t it the case that the search engine marketing world encounteres many crazes? First there was the directory craze (we all know what happened to that), now there is the Social Media craze. Compare the two and predict the future for the second one.

Danny Sullivan: I don’t think social media is going away. I think lots of the social media sites are keepers, and that getting to know social media now will be as important as really understanding link building back in 2000 and before. Directories were important, but I felt as soon as you saw more and more search engines shifting to a crawling model, the writing was on the wall that they wouldn’t keep up. Directories as a link building resource is another issue entirely, of course. In that case, I think any “craze” that attracts a lot of public attention is likely to drop off in effectiveness.

Mike Dammann: What I myself am amazed with is the amount of misinformation when it comes to SEO and the insane statements some thank-goodness-not-well-known seo companies out there. Which do you consider the biggest mistake made by new and intermediate SEOs and how should people protect themselves from being misguided.

Danny Sullivan: That’s so hard to say. The biggest mistake I still feel is to obsess too much on the web listings. I keep saying that with blending or universal search, things like local and video and blog search are important new ways into the listings. But people still bow down to the seeming supremecy of web search. I want them to look beyond it. I’d also think that they sometimes look too much to the near term. Things don’t work, so they immediately want to change something based on something else they’ve read on the forum. They’ll let themselves get easily confused and change things before they fully understand what the real problem might be.

Mike Dammann: We all know the SEO celebrities, but who has impressed you lately who is new?

Danny Sullivan: I have to punt on this one, because there have been lots of new people writing that I’ve been impressed by, especially people I’ve been finding off of Sphinn.com. But I don’t have a good list I’ve assembled and I’m afraid I’m gonig to leave some people off. But the blogroll on Search Engine Land? Those are all people who’ve generally been noteworthy in some way.

Mike Dammann: Remember the hat you wore during your speech at the SES 2005? Do you still have it? If so, please keep it, unless you give it to me.

Danny Sullivan: That’s so long ago now. I think it was a black hat someone gave me, but I can’t remember now. I did buy a bunch of hats for people at Great American, funny ones like pimp hats, so maybe it was one of those.

Mike Dammann: Now we´re still in the Wild West of the internet world. As Aaron has said, you can outrank companies spending Millions thru creativity and passion. Do you believe that will be possible in 10 years or will ever position that can make people money have at least some sort of price.

Danny Sullivan: I still think 10 years from now, it won’t be money buys all. Creativity and passion should, I certainly hope, still get rewarded.

Mike Dammann: I was surprised to find out your name is Danny and not Daniel, legally. I´m sure that many people don´t know that.

Danny Sullivan: Yep, blame my mom, I guess. I’ve had editors over the years who have tried to “grow me up” by changing my bylines, and I’m always like, Um, it’s my name, not a nickname.

Mike Dammann: What inspires you the most when you do your work? And which part do you like the least?

Danny Sullivan: I hate feeling like there’s too much to do, and I’m probably least inspired if a flame war breaks out. But I’m most inspired that people still seems to find what I do useful. I’ll get that email saying thanks, this really helped, and it can mean the world to m.

Mike Dammann: Let´s say you were new to SEO, had a site and don´t know anybody in the business. With what you know today, what would you advise yourself to do today to get your website ranked and stay ranked?

Danny Sullivan: To get my own SEO site ranked? I wouldn’t even try. Competition is hard, with people doing it for years ahead of you. I’d focus on doing a blog and trying to show my knowledge of SEO through my writing.

Mike Dammann: You are many people´s hero in SEO. Who are your heroes and why?

Danny Sullivan: Again, there are so many people I should name and will forget. Glenn Fleishman stands out for having guided the I-Search marketing list way back when I first got started and gave me and many others a home there.

Mike Dammann: Danny, I have many more questions, but before I ask you the same things that everyone wants to know, I would like you to tell us a little bit about what some of the highlights of the next Search Marketing Expos will be.

Danny Sullivan: SMX Advanced is our next big show, and we’ve got a lot of great stuff. An entire day just for developers. A look at how search marketers can survive a recession. Buying sites as an SEO tactic. Making sure you’re measuring the right things. The return of our Give It Up panel. Overall, the key thing is that the entire show takes the conversation up a notch. Those pitching know they’ve got to please advanced search marketers, so they’ve really got to have “wow” material. And no one is the audience is going to ask, “What’s a meta tag?”

Mike Dammann: Will creativity become more important when getting natural rankings in the future?

Danny Sullivan: Well, that’s hard to answer. Creativity like being a smarter black hat? I think creativity will be important, but I’d put that down in general to thinking outside the box, finding a way for your site to really stand out from the 100s of others that are out there as an outstanding destination

Mike Dammann: Google loves information. Because of that it seems that blogs definitely get extra consideration, especially certain platforms like Wordpress. One thing that I am noticing is that more and more blog entries which are old and information wise outdated outrank fresh, new and timewise accurate blogposts making it harder for web searchers to get the news and updates they would like. Is this something that you believe Google is trying to and will fix?

Danny Sullivan: I’ve seen the opposite, too — that fresh blog posts can come in and outrank older material. Ask yourself how that can happen, how any brand new post can carry more weight so quickly. The answer is that the domain, the web site itself, carries a lot of authority. If you want to outrank everyone else, you really need to build a well-respected, trusted domain. That won’t happen overnight. It’s going to take months, perhaps years, of consistent work. But you can get there, and when you do, it’s golden.

Danny, it was the pimp hat you were wearing, and if you don’t remember it, I will.

Thank you for this excellent interview and the compliment.

Wish you many more years of success and may the best be yet to come.

Take care!

~ Mike Dammann

Note: If any of you have comments, suggestions, or questions, leave it on this post. We have many more great interviews to come, and if you would like to let us know how we are doing or if you have a question for Danny, go for it!

First Look at SearchMe Beta

So it’s pretty obvious that we can’t get enough of SearchMe here at SearchFeature. It’s hands-down the coolest new innovation in search. It may be just a fad, or it could change search as we know it. It’s too early for me or anyone to predict, but many people who’ve seen it already have had good things to say about it.

SearchMe, for those of you who haven’t been following along, is a cool new visual search engine that’s right now in private beta. You can sign up for an invite to be amongst the select beta testers on their site, but there’s no guarantee you’ll get in. So for those of you who are still waiting on invites, we’ve got a quick first look for you. Hopefully these screenshots will hold you over until you’re able to check it out for yourself. Read more

General SEO -Dos- Explained

For those of you that are like me and need an explanation for everything, I took my SEO dos and don’ts post and broke it down adding brief explanations for each recommendation. Again, feel free to chime in with your thoughts or experiences. Here’s an explanation for the dos; I’ll post an explanation for the don’ts later.

SEO Dos

1. Build Quality Relevant Links

It is no secret that links are one of the most important factors in ranking a website – building high quality relevant links will produce the best results. In general, a good link will first bring you traffic and second pass a little bit of link juice to your site. I believe keyword anchor links within related text are best. Some good ways to build links include: article submissions, directory submissions, social media, forums, blogs, press releases, creating web pages on Hubpages or Squidoo etc..

2. Make it easy for search engines and users to navigate your entire site

By providing your website visitors easy access to your entire site, you will give them a better user experience. In addition, user-friendly sites are generally search engine friendly sites. Just make it so there is a link to every page on your site making it easy to navigate your entire site by using only links.

3. Create Unique Content Often

Your visitors and search engines love updated content, especially if it is unique and good. Train the search engines to visit you site often by giving them something new with each visit. Unique content allows you to target more keywords and gives you something to build links back to; it gives your visitors a reason to vote for, or talk about, you.

4. Use Page Titles, H tags and Meta descriptions

Page titles help users and search engines identify the content that can be found on your website/webpage. Titles have weight in algorithms and can improve your rankings. H Tags also have weight and can help your rankings. H tags allow you to set your content up in sections H1 is the heading of your page and H2, H3, H4 tags are used to assign sections and distribute importance. Meta descriptions do not do much, if anything for many search engines but they may be what your visitors see first in the search results. A well written description could attract more visits.

5. Link out to trusted sources

You should be linking out to sources already but if you aren’t, linking out to trusted sources just adds that much more authority to your document. Think of it as a college term paper, teachers made sure you used credible sources for research and Google appreciates credible sources too. Read more

SEO Tip - General SEO dos and don’ts

It’s late but I’m going to try and shell out a few SEO dos and don’ts. Forgive me if it lacks anything and feel free to chime in with your $.2

Dos
1. Build Quality Relevant Links
2. Make it easy for search engines and users to navigate your entire site
3. Create Unique Content Often
4. Use Page Titles, H tags and Meta descriptions
5. Link out to trusted sources
6. Start a blog on your site
7. Develop content for each keyword
8. Build a user sitemap
9. Build a xml sitemap
10. Build deep links
11. Use different keywords for anchor text links
12. Try to keep your most important content within 3 clicks of the homepage
13. 301 redirect your non-www to your www URL or vice versa
14. Build creative 404/400 error pages with links back to main sections of your site
15. Link to pages within your site using keywords
16. Develop a strategy and stick with it
17. Have Patience
Read more

6 Sexiest Girls in SEO

Looking back a few years, I’m happy to say that things have changed for the better in the SEO world.
Trust me, there were not even females on webmaster forums until Digital Point came around (or so it seems).
Now I’ve come across 6 Sexiest Girls in SEO and it’s good to see that things have changed. 2 of the girls work for Rand. Julie should have been on there though.

John Holland, Co-founder of SearchMe

MD: John, the whole search engine marketing world is currently talking about your new search engine and many of us are a part of the BETA testing. What gave you the idea to create a visual search engine and how long did it take you to develop the product as it is right now?
JH: We wanted to create something different in search. We got the idea by asking ourselves how the Internet had changed in the last 5 years. One of those ways is broadband, another way is that it’s a lot bigger. Our visual interface and categorization address today’s Internet. We’ve spent 3 years on our technology, with various research stops along the way.
MD: John, many of my readers might not know you (yet). What is your background and what would you consider your main area of interest?

Here’s my bio: http://www.crunchbase.com/person/john-holland

My main interest with regards to the net is how the internet is transforming culture. on the side, i like music, politics, film, art, food, and travel.

MD: OK for the life of me, I cannot figure out your algorithm. The results are slightly different than the other search engines, or rather Google in particular. Without the need to reveal too much (of course every SEO wants to know as much as possible), what is your algorithm based on and how important of a role do you believe it will play when it comes to the future of SearchMe.
JH: The order is determined by a number of factors. Every major search engine uses a combination of algorithmic and editorial features to rank results by relevance. We do the same, but we also categorize the results to make it easier to find what you’re looking for. This algorithm will be essential, especially as we tune it for categories and visual search.

MD: John, everyone I have spoken to is into SearchMe and predicts a great future. What are your predictions? Not just for SearchMe, but internet search within the next few years.

JH: I think search is going to get richer, and simpler. Search has to live on mobile phones and TV, not just the Internet. And it has to work for real people. Scanning rows and rows of text is neither simple nor natural for many people. Now, I personally am a text-based search geek. But I meet many people who aren’t, and I think they will be very important in the future of search.

MD: What were some of your biggest obstacles to overcome and how did you overcome them?
JH: Imaging a billion pages is a challenge. After brute force, you have to get intelligent about how you image. Our other big challenge was a category schema and suggest engine. We did this with a combination of human information scientists, and machine learning.

MD: John, are you friends with anybody in the search engine marketing industry? We all know that Google has Matt Cutts. How closely are you going to network with SEOs and what purpose do you believe hanging out with SEOs serves?
JH: Haha, I have all kinds of friends. My background is marketing, so I’ve worked in the past more with SEOs than SEMs. One way or another, you have to “pay to play,” and I’ve found SEM more straightforward. That said, I think SEO’s do a real service to users if it’s done right.

Other than search engines, technology and the internet, what are your passions and what inspires you?
JH: Charity. All of us in technology are so fortunate for the things we have. I’d like to find ways to help us all give a little.

MD: You are the co-founder. Would you introduce your team to us and give us an insight on who the biggest players are?
JH: EVERYONE in our company is a big player, perhaps because we are a small company. My partner and our CEO, Randy Adams is amazingly talented and creative, and the product owes a lot to him. We have a whole group of engineers, information scientists, and web developers that is fantastic.

MD: John, thank you so much for this interview. Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you would like to be able to share with our readers?
JH: Probably that we’re just getting started. Our approach opens up a world of possibility, and we’re excited to be a part of the search ecosystem.

Thanks for the opportunity!

To find out how you can become a BETA tester and experience visual search on your own, go to Searchme.com and tell us what you think!

Check out the press page as well.

Google’s Search Within a Search Has Retailers & Website Owners Upset

A recent addition to Google’s stash of search tools which allows consumers to conduct a search-winthin-a-search for many popular websites has resulted in a mass of angry website owners that would rather Google stay out of their site-search altogether. When you conduct a search on Google for, let’s say, Wal-Mart, you’ll get your standard search results, but below the Walmart.com listing, there’s a new search box that lets you “search walmart.com”. Read more

SearchMe - The Visual Search Engine (in BETA)

You HAVE TO check out the new visual search engine SearchMe. A review is coming up. SearchMe is the upcoming visual search engine currently available to BETA testers only. Read more

SEO Tip - Directories are not Dead

Directory links are dead, right?

I bring this up because I see tons of questions in forums and nearly every directory I visit lost PR over the last few updates. The popular questions: “Are directory links still valuable?” or “Should I still get directory links?”, from what I’ve seen most people still believe they’re valuable if - they’re relevant, located on an indexed page and located on a page that doesn’t have hundreds of outgoing links. I’ll go a little further and suggest that if you can find a reputable service that does hundreds or thousands of manual directory submissions, and it’s not too expensive, do it hands down. Read more

Searchfeatured: Rand Fishkin

Rand Fishkin was nice enough to talk with Search Feature about his life, successes and answer some search questions that come up often.

For those of you experiencing the Internet for the first time, Rand is CEO and co-founder of SEOmoz. SEOmoz is a leader in the search marketing industry and provides webmasters, and the common folk, with search education, tools, resources, and paid services.

Here’s the Q&A with Rand and Mike

Q: Rand, first of all thank you very much for this interview. It’s been about 3 years since we have actually met face to face. How have you been since and what would you call your biggest accomplishments within that period.

A: I’ve been very well, but overwhelming busy. My days are packed with tasks, meetings, emails, calls and contact. It’s a hectic life, but I’m really enjoying it and it’s a great feeling to see the impact the company has on the search marketing world. As for my biggest accomplishment, I’d probably have to say that personally, it’s my engagement to my wonderful fiancée and our upcoming wedding this fall. Professionally, the construction of a team of 15 dedicated, smart, passionate people at SEOmoz (from a size of 3 in 2004) has been an eye-opening, but rewarding experience.

Q: Rand, a lot of discussions have been started regarding “Page Strength“. Which mistakes have you made in the past and what have you done to fix them?

A: By mistakes, I’m guessing you mean with the tool itself? There have been quite a few - it was never built to support the level of traffic it receives, and until this October, when we re-launch rebuilt versions of all the tools and the tool processes from scratch, it will still be slow at times, and have occasional inaccuracy. The demands of creating a tool to grab and process that level of data thousands of times each data is non-trivial, and we’ve certainly been humbled by all the work it entails.

Q: Rand, everybody looks up to you and at you for SEO advice. Who do you consult with when you get stuck or need some input on a blog post or some new developments in the world of SEO?

Read more

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